Inspired Action for Imperfect Humans – S4 E15: “Being a Bold Risk Taker Or Playing Small” – Part 2

“Being a Bold Risk Taker Or Playing Small” – Part 2 – Brief Summary:

“I included a check for $500 in an addressed envelope to the Westboro Baptist church…”

Are you a bold risk taker and ask for what you want, or do you play small? In this Inspired Action for Imperfect Humans podcast episode, Christopher Lawrence and Kyle Kalloo tell stories of boldly taking risks and asking for what they want, sometimes succeeding, and sometimes failing… and what they learnt in the process.


  • Introduction
  • Christopher tells his story of writing a check to the Westboro Baptist Church
  • Kyle tells his story of his time in elementary school and wanting to be a business leader
  • The YouTube Channel “Yes Theory”
  • 8 reasons why risk takers are more successful

Calls to Action:

Even before the remote workforce evolution, office culture was inherently fragile. After all, it’s made up of imperfect humans interacting with other imperfect humans. And while perfection isn’t the goal, we all secretly wish for a workplace where people find ways to bring out the best in each other. Unfortunately, that’s not always an intuitive skill. It takes guidance, practice, and then more guidance and practice… but with the right leadership, it’s definitely achievable. How do you enhance your workforce’s ability to engage, collaborate, and adapt in this volatile and uncertain reality? Get the answers to your culture questions when you setup a complimentary Discovery Session with Kyle Kalloo at

Not loving your career? Feel you need a change in your job? Let’s Strategize! Book a complimentary Strategy Session with Christopher Lawrence here:

Tell us your “inspired stories” stories by visiting

Christopher Lawrence LinkedIn:

Kyle Kalloo LinkedIn:

Change My Life Coaching & Change My Business Coaching LinkedIn:

Looking to create a corporate coaching culture? Reach out to Kyle Kalloo: [email protected]


“Being a Bold Risk Taker Or Playing Small” – Part 2 – Transcript:

[00:00:00] And I included a check for $500 in an addressed envelope to the Westboro Baptist church is the thought of being imperfect, keeping you from taking action. Welcome to inspired action for imperfect humans. Each week, we give you real life stories and thought provoking research that inspires your soul to live a fulfilled life through your own actions.

From the heart of Calgary Canada. Here are your hosts. Award-winning coaches, Christopher Lawrence. And Kyle Kalloo hello? Hello? Hello? Hello. Hello, this is hello. Can you hear me? Can hear Christopher and Kyle with inspired action for imperfect humans, the podcast. Listen, uh, this is part two of. Our podcast today.

Absolutely. And we are, uh, gonna dive right in here, Kyle, we left off [00:01:00] with a very interesting story. Yeah. Um, about kind of shaking things up. mm-hmm and taking risk and asking for what you need and, and playing small. And so I’m gonna pick this up right now, cuz I know people are wondering, I wrote a check for $500 to the Westboro Baptist church.

Uh, crazy. What were you thinking? Three days ago. So this, if you don’t know these people, so if you’re a homophobic and a bigot, um, we know them and, um,

I wrote a check to the Westboro Baptist Church for $500.
I wrote a check to the Westboro Baptist Church for $500.

you would like to, um, Get yourself, um, yeah, in, into a really scary bigoted cult, you should join the Westboro Baptist church. Um, and so I wrote a check to them for $500. Not because I want that, but what I’m doing is. Using a [00:02:00] commitment device. I needed to take a bigger risk in my life. So last two years have been really hard.

It’s been hard for business. We’ve there’s been, our industry has had an increase of 40% in terms of the number of coaches that have entered the field. We’ve been at this for 10 years. Um, and so, I mean, good. We need more coaches in the world. The challenge is, is that it. You know, for businesses that have been in that 10 year range.

And this is what the, the study that came out of the ICF showed was that businesses in that 10 year range struggled more in COVID than any of the other coaching businesses. So 10 plus years. And so we’re, we’re heading into 10 years in a couple months here. Mm-hmm so, so it’s super, super, super interesting, um, to, um, To go through this, uh, you know, this process of COVID and everything else.

Well, during this time, you know, I’m [00:03:00] I’m teaching a weight loss class. And meanwhile, when my co-facilitator is teaching, I’m turning my camera off and eating food. Right. So, so I, I put on some weight and I’m uncomfortable and I’ve got some health issues going on, mostly related to food. And so, but I couldn’t, I couldn’t get, I couldn’t shake it up for myself.

I couldn’t like, no matter what I do did I couldn’t get my behavior to change. So I used a commitment device. So what I did is I wrote a letter to, uh, a, a commitment letter to my mom and I, uh, signed it and I included a check for $500 in an addressed envelope to the Westboro Baptist church. And I sent that off to my mom and I said, uh, if I’m eating.

Off plan. And I will be honest about it. You need to send this check to the Westboro Baptist church. And I don’t hate the people in that church. I just think that they have different beliefs than me and, um, and I can’t support [00:04:00] their beliefs and I, I try to understand, but I don’t understand. Um, and so if I eat incorrectly, um, for, for the next period of I’m, uh, she will have to, you had to start an end date.

Right. You had a start and end date to say there was a start and end date on it. And so, so the thing is, is that I I’m on day three now. And let me tell you something, I have been eating clean. Right, right, right. I am, I I’m so committed. So, so like when we talk about like playing small and risk taking, that’s the risk that I chose to take.

And part of that involves me trusting myself. That I can actually do this and that, that money won’t go to the Westboro Baptist church. Yeah. Cause sometimes that whole piece around accountability, risk and reward, right? Like there’s, there’s a, there’s a wide combination of what that looks like, but what I really appreciate it not, but what I really do appreciate with that.

You know for you, [00:05:00] Christopher is you’re saying, listen, I really need to up the ante on myself. Right. I need to really make sure not only do I wanna hold myself accountable, but obviously, and I know your mom quite well, that, you know, you’ll be very Frank with her and she’s gonna also, although she’s your mother, she’s not gonna let you get away with it either.

Right. So that’s a great accountability, but that is gonna ask you the right question. Knows when you’re lying or telling you the truth. Right? Cuz of course all these years, she knows when you’re lying. So then she’ll be able to execute on that, even though I know your mother is gonna pain her to send that check off, but she will do it.

And that is what I, I appreciate about that. Right. And so good on you to get into that discomfort of saying, Hey. Although I’m discomfort right now. I’m actually gonna up the ante of discomfort by putting that out there, knowing that, you know, you want a meaningful life, you know, that was one of the things that we ended off the last podcast on.

Right. And so if you haven’t listened to the last podcast, you definit [00:06:00] need to go back to listen to it because we were talking about people are constant. Well, not constantly, but people out there feel that there’s some discomfort or they don’t want to be reject. Did or they’re getting in their own way in which allows them to think small.

70% of people who ask for a raise get something...
70% of people who ask for a raise get something…

We heard Christopher sure. The stats that 70% of those people who ask for more money or money in general ends up getting something may not be the number, but gets something. And of course that lets you think about where in your life are you playing small, right? What is getting your way to tell your boss to be really clear about wanting that?

And sometimes you may have to act the part Christopher, last time ended our last podcast talking about my story around when I was younger, how and I had literally have it. On a report card, right? This is elementary. This is our primary school. I think that’s elementary over here, right in Canada. When we say elementary, we’re talking about grade school.

Right. Um, um, so yes. Yeah. So for, for me, [00:07:00] it depends on which province you’re in, but for us, primary school is basically like, like pre kindergarten. So it’s preschool and then kindergarten to grade eight in some provinces or kindergarten to grade UHS. Seven six and no six in some, uh, sorry. Grade six in some schools is, is elementary element.

And then, and then sometimes they go straight to high school, or sometimes you have junior high, high school depends on the province, but yeah. Yeah. So for us, it went up to eight as the elementary kind of school system. So I think it was, that was, that was me two in Saskatchewan. It was up to eight. Yeah.

Yeah. So the thing about was six or seven, I always got into class and I always wanted to be close to the teacher’s desk. Not because I wanted to be a teacher’s pet. Right. Because trust me, they’ll tell you I was never their pet . Um, but I always want to be close to the teacher’s desk. And the reason why is because we had those individual desks that had the, you know, from me, it opened up and you had a little desk inside to [00:08:00] put your books and stuff and you close it.

So anyway, I would always push my desk. Slowly and slowly, closer and closer to the teachers until it’s touching. And then my desk becomes their desk and meaning their desk becomes my desk and I start to spread out a little bit and a few teachers would be like, what’s happening here? Like put yourself on your desk.

Yeah. So why did you do that? Like, what was your, what was your motivation in your little brain? I just had this vision that I will grow up one day and I will have an, a big desk because I felt I’ll be an executive and I will have a big desk. I’ll be a business owner and I’ll be able to have a big desk because that meant I’ve made it.

And that’s growth. That’s. Development instead of this tiny little desk, I’d be able to spread out and have a big desk. And of course I saw those things in movies and there’s things about that. I really attracted to me. So I said, listen, I’m gonna play the part. Right. I’m gonna play the part. So I started.

To expand. And then I started to the person next to [00:09:00] me or beside me, or behind me became staff employees. You know, I had an assistant, you know, I was making air quotes to my assistant. Right. Making air quotes when you quote, so you’re pretending that this is your business. Totally. And then, and did you tell them, did you tell them that you.

Well, I, not that I told them that we’re in a business and they’re my employee. Right. And so, so these people are like, I’m the secretary. I’m a exactly. I’m the secretary. Right. Do, what’s funny about the story. So just, just before you continue on here, you know, what’s so funny about the story. When I met you at west jet with your friends group, when you were.

In your early sixties, those early young years,

whatever. When, when, when, when we met at WestJet yeah. You had something that you called caucus, and this was kind of like your own little secret society that you were the head of. You called of yourself, the chief chancellor. In fact, in some of your socials, [00:10:00] you still use still. Totally chief chancellor.

And so you were kind of like you were playing government, right? Like you had, um, you had, uh, well, when we dated you, you called me the first lady archive yeah, the right. And then the first, the other person before you were the former first lady. That’s right. Yeah. And so, and so we had this thing and even on one of the report cards, Christopher cuz was, my mom was like, what is this comment about?

And one of the teachers said, If Kyle will spend more time on his studies, instead of trying to run a business, he would be more successful right. In his classroom. And I just thought, could you imagine that teacher nurtured it? But what I was doing was I was playing big. I wasn’t playing small. I was playing big right or wrong.

People felt drawn to me, cause they wanted to be in the business. They wanted to be an employee.
People felt drawn to me, cause they wanted to be in the business. They wanted to be an employee.

It got me through, I felt motivated. People, me felt drawn to me cuz they wanted to be in the business. They wanted to be an employee. Right. They wanted to be a part of this. Right. And so what I’m saying, just to kind of conclude on this piece of it is saying, I have learned again and again, which is maybe [00:11:00] why I don’t think I’m rejection proof.

Cuz I do feel what I feel. I just don’t stay in that place, which is, I already started with a no, if I don’t ask already a no, I want the opportunity for that 50%. Yes. So I want the opportunity for it. So when I go to jobs, when I apply to jobs and I tell people I want a better role or bigger role or a bigger salary or a different role, it’s because I want the opportunity for a potential.

Yes. Right. And so, you know, I often say even to myself or to some of my clients dream big and then focus small. Right. There’s nothing wrong with saying, Hey, this is what it looks like back to what you said in the previous podcast is now I have a target when we clearly know what Rome looks like. It’s a hell of a lot easier to start planning and mapping out roads and alleys and, and ways to get into that.

You know, Kyle, it’s interesting because, um, one things that I’ve been really focused on, [00:12:00]um, in this, uh, in this last couple years, um, grow, growing up. Uh, particularly when I hit my early twenties, I experienced crippling anxiety, like full blown, panic attacks and anxiety attacks, like running to the hospital, thinking I was dying and all this stuff.

And so, so pan, you know, just, just due to some. Some, uh, you know, personal stuff that happens for me, my brain gets a little bit fixated and that kind of thing on certain things, um, uh, I have some mild obsessive, uh, tendencies and thoughts. And so what’s really interesting about this is that, is that so much of this around playing small and risk taking and asking for what you want boils down to one.

Problem, which is fear. And it’s interesting. I’ve been watching, um, I don’t know if you’ve heard of this YouTube channel, but you definitely need to check it out. It’s these guys on they’re called yes. Theory. Yes. Theory. Right, right. And they go and they challenge themselves with different things. Sometimes it’s a fear sometimes it’s just saying yes to [00:13:00] something that they wouldn’t, uh, normally say.

Too. Mm-hmm . And so they do all sorts of different experiences and I find it quite inspiring actually to kind of see some of the stuff they do, what they explore, not everyone will do what they do. I think sometimes people watch it and think they need to mimic what they’re doing. And I’m like, but what is the version of that in your own life?

Right. So, so, so I think it’s such an interesting thing as, as we learn to say yes to our ourselves, one of the things, you know, you and I both work with coaches and therapists as we need to, I think. Good coaches get coaches and, and take care of their own mental health. I think if you’re a coach who doesn’t have a coach, I think you’re it’s, I think it’s arrogance.

Um, and so I, I think that you have to seek coaching out and, and, um, and it’s interesting with, uh, with my coach, one of the things that comes out of our sessions is this. This conversation about what we call inner exclusion, where we’re saying no to ourselves before even asking. So a lot of this totally, and my life has to do with belonging right.

Where I belong. [00:14:00] Right. So, so Kyle, I just to kind of wrap up here, I thought I’d go through just a. A handful of things, um, that, that might inspire people to take a little bit more risk and ask for what they want. So this is stuff that’s like, you, you know, maybe it’s eight reasons why risk takers or those who ask for what they want.

Might be more likely to be successful. Um, one of the things that we should caveat it is just cuz you take a risk doesn’t mean there is no guarantee that it’s gonna work. You could take a hundred risks and only one of those risks will turn out. Well, we just don’t know and right. But what we do know is that if you take no risk, There’s no potential for, for success in your life.

Mm-hmm , you know, and Kyle, you mentioned this as a quote last week, which is discomfort is the price of admission, uh, to success. And so mm-hmm so let’s go through these eight things and then I think we’ll wrap up, so sure. So yeah. People who take risks. They tend to experience passion in the risk that they’re taking.

Purpose has staying power. Passion can come and go.
Purpose has staying power. Passion can come and go.

Right. And, and [00:15:00] I would even go further and say purpose because I think purpose has staying power. Passion can come and go. Uh, people who take risks tend to stand out. Right? So risk takers are bold. They, they gain knowledge. So you can all only learn things about yourself by going through it. This is where we talk about.

There is often no right answer for you in your life. You might just have to go try a few things on, we can mitigate the risk and get clarity to make educated, um, decisions. But there’s no guarantee that if you, you know, quit being an engineer to go become a medical doctor, that you’re gonna love it. Right.

Right. You know, we, we can, we can get clearer on it by spending time with doctors, whatever, um, uh, Uh, people who are in this are in the pursuit of success, whether it’s a success of that next raise, the next challenge in their job, whatever it is, they’re also not afraid of failure. I would actually disagree with this.

I think that, um, that, uh, um, risk takers [00:16:00] experience, just as much fear as everybody else. The difference is is that they have a relationship with facing their fear yes. And moving through it. But that doesn’t mean that they experience less fear. Right. Like I said, you know, like I feel experience rejection.

I just move through it, uh, a lot quicker because, uh, I know what’s there. Yeah, totally. They set a higher standard for themselves. I think if I could encourage people to set a higher standard for themselves, it’s not in something that’s extrinsic, it’s something that’s intrinsic. The higher standard is.

Actually first identifying what you want and need really spending some time on what you want and need and to asking for it and pursuing it. That’s the higher standard. It’s not, it’s not something external to you. It’s internal to you. Uh, and of course we come back to learning all the way through, right.

And actually, Kyle, you, and [00:17:00] I can say this, um, you know, just as many as all of the other entrepreneurs out there during COVID, um, our best learnings have come through our failures. Absolutely. Yeah. Can I summarize just before we, we, we head out here. Yeah, totally. Yeah. So I was at an event and a keynote speaker.

There was Dr. Susan David, and I just wanna summarize the three main points here. And one thing that, a couple things that she said, innovation holds the hands with failure. Right. Inclusion holds hands with potential disagreement and collaboration hold hands with conflict. Right. So sometimes we’re saying those things to get to the other side, you sometimes have to walk through that, right?

It’s like, we’ve heard the expression before you can’t appreciate light without have gone through darkness. Right? So we’re saying if, if you want those other things for yourself, be okay to move through that. Speaking of moving through that. If you want to chat with us a little bit further more about that, or if you’re just not clear, reach out to us, we’ll be more than happy to have a conversation.

We’ll see you [00:18:00] next week. Take care. It’s our goal to build a global community of inspired action takers, and we can only do that with your help. So if you love inspired action, please leave a review on your favorite podcasting app and share us on your socials. You’ve heard from us. Now we wanna hear from you go to inspired action podcast dot.

CA and tell us, what is the inspired action you took this week? Next week? Uninspired action for imperfect humans. How come your billables are so low? You need to get your billables up. This is their very first in-person meeting post pandemic. Why do you think the billables are low youth fucking idiot?

Like, are you stupid?

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