Inspired Action For Imperfect Humans – S2 EP31: “Your Bias Is My Problem and Yours” Pt. 2

You Bias Is My Problem and Yours Pt. 2

“Your Bias Is My Problem and Yours” Pt.2 Brief Summary of Show: 

Bias and understanding. Can we all be on the same page in this world or are we doomed to be factional and fight forever? Do we all need to think and believe in the same way to get along? In this Inspired Action For Imperfect Humans episode, Christopher Lawrence and Kyle Kalloo return for the impassioned second part in this series, and further discuss implicit bias, a social media post that Christopher made regarding bias, assumption, and understanding, and solutions for imperfect action.

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“Your Bias Is My Problem and Yours” Pt. 2 Transcript:

The problem Kyle, is that people are not recognizing that we’re not all going to get on the same page.

Is the thought of being imperfect keeping you from taking action? Welcome to “Inspired Action for Imperfect Humans.” Each week, we give you real life stories and thought-provoking research that inspires your soul to live a more fulfilled life through your own actions. From the heart of Calgary, Canada, here are your hosts, award-winning coaches, Christopher Lawrence and Kyle Kalloo.

Welcome to another exciting week of “Imperfect Action,” no. “Inspired Action for Imperfect Humans.” Okay Christopher, one day, I’m gonna get this right, like you know, pray for me.

I don’t think you will, actually but I feel like that is perfect because it’s imperfect.

Oh, I like that. I like that.


I’m gonna remember you say that when I don’t do something right in the business. I’m gonna remember you said exactly that and I’m gonna remind you of how you loved it Remember, you loved it that time, okay. Well listen, this-

Yeah, this time.

Welcome to part two. This is part two and I had to bring this back Christopher because some stuff is just happening since we did part one.

Part two of one, Kyle.

On implicit bias. See you can’t even wait for it, hey?

No, because-

You can’t even wait for it.

That’s correct.

Okay good, thank you.


This is part two of how does implicit bias influence your behavior, right? And so I want to get into that, before we get into the other piece of it. Let me just, for those who are listening this week, and maybe you did not listen to the first part of part one, which I know you’re gonna go back and look at. Let me just tell you a little bit about what implicit bias is, cause I know you’re hearing different things about biases and all that other stuff but let me just for the context of this episode. An implicit bias is an unconscious association, belief, or attitude towards any social group. Due to implicit biases, people may often attribute certain qualities or characteristics to all members of a particular group. A phenomenon known as stereotyping, right? I just wanna point out, it is really important to remember that implicit biases operates almost entirely on unconscious, at an unconscious level while explicit biases and prejudices are intentional and controllable. Implicit biases are less so. I want to ask you about a post you did recently and I know we didn’t get a chance to chat a little bit about it. So you may have to take a few seconds to go find that post that you recently did that I think I mentioned, it was interesting and I didn’t finish reading the rest of it. So, I wanted to hear you talk a little bit. It’s all about the whole vaccine. Do you vaccine, not vaccine and all that other stuff. Do you know the post I’m talking about?

I do and actually I have it up here but-


But I wanna be really clear about something. It wasn’t about vaccines.


That was a subject that I mentioned in it and so I’m going to read this post because I think, I got fed up. Like, I seriously got fed up with kind of, how our planet right now like, seems to think we can summarize complex issues like vaccines or politics or, you know, religion or economic systems in a few words-


In a meme or a shoddy metaphor like, comparing vaccine passports to having a driver’s license or an iPhone.


Right? Like-


And I think it’s sloppy on both sides, right? So one-

So just to be clear, it’s not just about the whole vaccine passport or vaccine? It’s just in general like-

It’s not.

things, things are just-

That’s one example I gave.

Okay, okay. Yeah, I’ll be honest-

Yeah, like-

with you, I did not finish read the rest of it. I thought it was a lot-

Well, let’s-

of all the stuff on there-

Let’s do it right now.

Okay, let’s, let’s hear it. Sorry. I put in big capital letters, the word shame because I wanted people-


to read it and I knew that, they would read it if I put that.


So So what I said-


Your Bias Is My Problem and Yours
Your Bias Is My Problem and Yours

was I find it astounding that many of you on Facebook seem to believe you can summarize issues as complicated as vaccines and vaccine passports, economic systems, government policy, policing, racism, gender inequality, et cetera, with a few brief words. Loose analogies, changing your Facebook photo frame and poor metaphors. No matter what side you’re on, it’s sloppy-


it’s uneducated and most of all, it’s not changing anyone’s mind. All it does is create factions and further implicit bias. It is possible to be embarrassed. Sorry, is it possible to be embarrassed to be a human being? Because right now I am. I’m hurting inside. Proper discourse is a start. Discourse, I define it. Discourse is a verbal interchange of ideas, especially conversation. A formal and orderly, and usually extended expression of thought on a subject. Connected speech or writing a linguistic unit such as a conversation or story larger than a sentence-


but instead, everyone is spouting garbage. Your memes and analogies are sloppy garbage. I was shamed for celebrating Canada day this year, but what nobody knows

That’s interesting.

I’ll continue. I’ve gotta clear my throat for a second.

Yeah, it’s interesting what you’re writing so far, right? Because it’s, I understand your viewpoint around, these are complex things that we can’t just, boom, here’s one thing on it. You know and I want you to hear the rest of it cause I have a few more additional thoughts on how, how else can someone start the conversation?

Totally, so I think. So it’s interesting because I think that, my point up to this point-


was that people are making these, these statements and these loose metaphors for our political system or, you know, maybe even looking at like Donald Trump and comparing him to Hitler in three actions Donald Trump took that-


looked similar to what Hitler did. Right?


But it’s such an understatement of the complexity of those issues.

True, mm-hmm.

I never would have voted for Donald Trump but I felt sorry for him because-


like, you know, everybody’s like, he’s crazy, he’s crazy. Well, if the man is crazy, that means he has a mental illness and I don’t treat people with a mental illness as poorly as our media and people on social media-

Right, fair point, yeah.

treated him.

I started to feel sorry for him.

Mm-hmm, a lot of people did. Like, holy shit.


Right? And it’s like, and I’m not saying he was the right leader, but he was their leader


in the United States. We have the same issue here with Justin Trudeau, right now.


Right it’s like, so here’s how I continue.


We’d just, we’ve just defined discourse. I say, but instead of discourse, everyone is spouting garbage. Your memes and analogies are sloppy garbage. I was shamed for celebrating Canada Day this year but what nobody knows is that I was celebrating Canada Day at Heritage Park. So in Calgary, this is a, it’s a little park. It’s got like a little heritage village in it. It’s really cute, I love it.

Great things going on.

We get an annual pass, to be there, right?


I was celebrating Canada Day at Heritage Park and one of the first places we stopped was at the First Nations Tee-pees. We learned about their culture. Asked them how they were doing. Made sure we understood what supporting them needed to look like. So to those that shamed me, what did you do? Change your Facebook cover orange?


Have you actually had discourse with a First Nations person? Or a policeman or a POC? Have you had a conversation with a liberal or conservative?


Or if you’re in the US, Republican or Democrat? Discourse, like what is defined above? Have you had discourse with a vaxxer or anti-vaxxer without trying to convince them that you are right and just-


Listened? Have you shared in thought an idea? Or did you hide behind your Facebook post meme or short sentence summary, in fear that someone else may believe differently than you?


It's not black and white.
It’s not black and white.

You see that there is no one right way for everyone? It’s not black and white. These issues are complex. Instead of seeing this, you choose to be right in your rightness by posting sloppy, disgusting, and uneducated comments without actually learning what the other side is saying or why they’re saying it in the first place. The only attack on our freedom right now is narrow-minded biased thinking without questioning your own biases. I don’t like our world anymore. I feel lonely because I refuse to choose sides and I feel constantly inundated with memes that make you think you’re right-


but you’re not right. Instead you have a perspective. Do you go out of your way to question and challenge your perspective and biases? Or do you enter all conversations with perspective of your rightness and convincing others, they are wrong?


I will leave you with this quote from Ayn Rand. Before I leave you with a quote, this is the part that drives me nuts. I think Black Lives Matter is a really important movement but people are lost in the messaging because what people don’t understand is that, if you look at social research? In North America, you’re more likely to be killed by a police officer if you are Caucasian.


Whereas if you are a person of color or black, specifically in the research, they’re more likely to get handsy with you. They’re more likely to kind of push you around and get their hands on you.


But people don’t know that when they’re fighting for all this stuff. I’m not saying that the George Floyd thing was wrong. I’m not saying that.


What I’m saying is that white people aren’t the only ones that are racist. That’s extremely narrow-minded and I think that the POC and Black Lives Matter movement is getting lost in the shuffle of bad information. The work that these people are actually doing on BLM is being overshadowed by people’s sloppy approach to this situation. Same thing with gender inequality. It happening like it’s, it’s brutal. So here’s this quote.


Ayn Rand
Ayn Rand

I leave you with this quote from Ayn Rand, “As a human being, you have no choice about the fact that you need a philosophy. Your only choice is whether you define your philosophy by a conscious, rational, disciplined process of thought and scrupulously logical deliberation. Or, you let your subconscious accumulate a junk heap of unwarranted conclusions, false generalizations, undefined contradictions, undigested slogans…” I’ll also add memes, shitty metaphors- whatever. “…undefined wishes, doubts, and fears thrown together by chance but integrated by your subconscious into a kind of mongrel philosophy and fused into a single solid weight of self-doubt. Like a ball and chain in the place where your minds wings should have grown.”

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That’s, that’s a lot. Great quote, there too.

Well, I’m so sick of it.


Like I’m so tired of this. It’s like, you know, every third post on social media is something about how-


You know, someone feels their freedom is being taken away because of the vaccine and some vaccine passports. Go and talk to somebody who’s an anti-vaxxer, like I did and understand their position, and recognize that some of their points are really valid. There are breakthrough viruses that are happening because you know, with vaccinated people. Somebody posted, you know, a young guy on my Facebook. I was on my Facebook wall, posted he’s double vaxxed and he has COVID right now.


So to somebody who is not vaccinated, they’re trying to understand why should I go get vaccinated, right? Like, they’re trying to understand that, right? You know, and I’m not saying that they’re right and I know that there’s more. You know people make posts, it’s like, if you disagree with a scientist then, then you just don’t understand science. This is another post-


that I saw this morning.


And I’m just like, I’m like, but not all science is aligned in the same way, either. Not all of the people, not all of the experts are aligned with things like COVID, or politics or whatever. I think this is, these are way more complex issues and there won’t be a single right answer.

I was watching a lot of movies about the aids epidemic and HIV
I was watching a lot of movies about the aids epidemic and HIV

Right and this is. This is a really good conversation. The reason why is, although it’s heavy, I remember when I was watching a lot of movies about the aids epidemic and HIV, and I was just like, oh my God, another movie, right? I’ve seen another movie about a slave, right? And you can get somewhat inundated by a lot of these things over and over without, kind of context. So I’m just curious based on what you wrote on and I don’t know what some of your replies have been actually, cause I haven’t really seen that. But based on what you wrote, if you had to bottom line it. If you had to just really simplify, you know, the main issue, what you were trying to address and if everyone, anyone who read that, everyone who was listening to you. Sometimes we do struggle with the what should I walk away with here? So what would you say the bottom line thing there in that message?

I think there’s a couple of bottom line messages here. First bottom line message is, don’t be sloppy about your education and other people. Don’t use sloppy metaphors that do not summarize the complexity of the issues that our world is facing. You want to understand the BLM movement? You have to understand slavery. You have to understand the NAACP and the fact that they-


were called a terrorist organization. We call the Taliban who right now has taken over Afghanistan and they’re saying, just leave us alone. We want to govern ourselves. That’s what they’re saying.


I don’t know what’s-


gonna happen.


But not all things for all people-


NAACP, which is basically what got rights in South Africa for-


black people and-


for Indian people.


Although Indian people came sooner because of Gandhi but-

Right, okay

But the NAACP was a terrorist organization.


You have to understand colonization and slavery
You have to understand colonization and slavery

And they did bomb pipelines, and energy, and power, and the rest of it. To understand why they did that, you have to understand slavery. If you want to understand the disparaging gap between education, between persons of color and white people, Caucasian people in the United States? Or in Canada with First Nations people? You have to understand colonization and slavery-


but people don’t dig that deep.


They don’t dig that deep. So the core messages are. Sorry girl, can you tell I’m impassioned about this?

Core messages are, don’t be sloppy about your messaging.


Don’t be sloppy about your messaging. Second one, be kind to those that don’t see the world the same way you do. Third message, check your bias.


Go have a conversation. Research why the other side thinks they’re right.

Mm-hmm. Just from an educated, from an academic perspective not from a, I’m gonna check off every reason why I know that their position is wrong.

Mm-hmm, or prove to me, prove to me. That’s the other thing-

Prove to me.

that I hear a lot.

Prove to me.

Tell me when he did that? When did he do that?

That’s it.

And you’re not interested in the answer, is what I noticed in those conversation. Can I share with you what I-

That’s the point.


That’s the point. They’re not interested in the answer and it’s-



That’s why it’s sloppy.

And I think our media doesn’t take responsibility for it because that’s not their goal. Their goal is ratings. They have a job just like everybody else. And social media is extremely sloppy. It’s very rare to get an educated perspective on social media, in a shitty meme.

Yeah and education is one thing. It’s what you do with that, you know? You heard the expression before, you know, knowledge is power and I’m like, eh, continue it

It’s what you-

because it’s not just knowledge.

It’s what you do with knowledge.

Absolutely, it’s what you do with that said knowledge. Here’s what I got from when I heard you reading a little bit about that and based on the bottom line that you just kind of offered about making sure you’re checking your biases. The impression I get, the story I tell myself, is quite a few people are trying to speak or the impression I’m getting, that they’re trying to speak from the absolute and that is the problem because no one has the absolute, right? And so when they’re pointing their finger and they’re saying, oh, this is what has happened. It’s almost like the impression is they’re speaking from an absolute but we know, we do not have the absolute.


And so, you know lately, last couple of days, and I don’t know about you, cause I know you you’ve been away and prior to that, I didn’t get chance to connect with you. But a lot of my clients are talking about it and I’m hearing a lot of absolute. You know, why is our government this? How come our government doesn’t do this? Why is the business doing this? Why is my employer doing this? Why is my employee doing that? And it’s all absolute absolutes and I’m like, you know. You know, I had one client who said, you know, why doesn’t the government show us both sides of the story? And you know, before making a decision? I said, in your business do you show both sides of the story before you make a decision to your employees? Like, there’s certain things that you’re just not gonna have all this other information. It’s like you were talking-

And the point is, is that a decision has to be made.


Like, so, so-

Cause if you do nothing? Then what?

We are all different.
We are all different.

That’s right. So to the people who aren’t in support of the vaccine. If you were the leader of your province, your city, province or country, what decision would you have made? Well, they might say something like, well, I wouldn’t have done this. I wouldn’t have, you know, vaccine this and that. And it’s like, okay. And to those that were in support of the vaccine who are now fighting because they feel like their freedom is being taken away because you didn’t wanna do it. How would you respond to them? This is a lose, lose, lose situation because no matter what position you choose, somebody’s going to disagree with you. And the problem Kyle, is that people are not recognizing that we’re not all going to get on the same page and people are fervent in their opinions.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

They believe this or this and where I fall is a little bit centrist. So it’s like I’m vaccinated.


I’m really, you know, the jury’s really still out on vaccine passports. I really don’t think-


that’s a good idea, personally. It’s one thing going to another country. It’s a totally different thing walking into a restaurant. I think as-

Or going to a province-

As, as-

to another province.

As somebody who has been discriminated against for my sexual orientation over and over and over again. I’m not sure that I want to expose my medical records.


I’m not sure that I want that exposed, right?

Yeah, and we already- have a lot of those different divides. I mean for example if you have an STI?

We do, we do.

You don’t have to tell anyone you have an STI but if you have-

That’s right.

HIV positive, you have to. Right?

You have to.

So again, you kind of come-


back as well, which is it? And I think one thing I wanted to unpack it a little bit and I hope people who are listening and watching today at least hear the undertone of this message, is about Christopher could have a different point of view like I do and we can still have discourse. We could still have a conversation. We could still engage. Doesn’t have to be an all or nothing, coming back to that absolute because, and we see it sometimes, you know. In other counterparts of the world, like if you’re Republican, you can’t emphasize or empathize with the Democrats. You know what I mean, and that’s the same thing here. I always say to people, whoever the Prime Minister is in my country that’s who I support, regardless of Party. If he’s a Prime Minister, I’m gonna be respectful for the Prime Minister. I’m not gonna say Steven. I’m gonna call him Prime Minister Harper, regardless of my view, regardless of you know, being a liberal person. Again, he’s my Prime Minister.


And I’ve always showed him that due respect, right? And I think that’s the piece that we find, it’s an us or them mentality, which I think comes back to that whole absolute. And so what we’re saying is-

And then we just support each other’s anger and sloppiness. Like you make one of these sloppy posts about, you know, whatever. You know, Justin Trudeau or-


or Erin O’Toole-


Or Jagmeet Singh or-


Ellie Mae, you know? Like you make a sloppy post about this stuff and if people agree with you, it’s like, like-like-like and they get a dopamine response and yes exactly, this is my point. And somebody else comes along-

And we leave thumbs up.

and says this isn’t my point


but we’re actually not listening to each other. We’re just so busy making noise talking to each other but we’re not even talking to each other, we’re talking at each other.

For sure.

So Kyle, I have a question.

Do you have a point? Sorry, before we do-

Go ahead-

that question.

make your next point and I wanna ask you-


a question.

I wanna. It’s the second point that you had mentioned about being kind and based on what you just said, the comments and the things I see. It’s so mean-spirited. When they’re calling someone a tool. When they’re called, what an idiot. When you like, it’s just all these things that we see and, you know, a client said to me the other day about, you know, the freedom. I’m going to the freedom rally and I just like, again, my view I said, I have an issue personally with a group calling that freedom. The vaccine or not being vaccine. I don’t know if I associate that with freedom, so to speak. Knowing our history, cultural pieces around what we’ve gone through when we talk about freedom. Freedom to marry, freedom to vote. Freedom, like there’s so many other things. I don’t know if I would put that in the category with vaccination but there’s this thing about that whole freedom pieces. And I said, here’s my thing. If you’re gonna call it that freedom thing and you are the type of person who, you were there on the frontline for BLM. You were there on the frontline for women’s rights. You were there with frontline for LGBTQ+ too, then great. But a lot of these folks I find in what I’m seeing is they’re waving the flag about, oh, I’m here for freedom and like, where were you with, you know, transgendered rights? Where were you with, you know, making sure people are fed? Where were you?

Oh, what about during the- –

the HIV? Like what about the HIV-

AIDS epidemic?

Pandemic, epidemic?


Like where were you with that? But this is interesting too-


because the assumption-


the implicit bias that people make is, in the definition of freedom.


To the drug addicts across the street who are literally-


injecting inside them right now, that we can look down on and-

Yeah, mm-hmm.

see, and have called 911 on-

Mm-hmm, mm.

in our office.


You know, since we’ve been here what three, four years?

Three years, three years-

Yeah, three and a half or something.

Three years, three and a half years actually, we’ve been in this office-


We’ve called 911-


for that situation, seeing people lying in a parking lot. Literally in the center of a parking lot with people driving around them, probably called 911 at least six or seven or eight times a year-


because of something going on down there. So is capitalism, freedom to that person?

Mm-hmm, interesting.

Vaccine passport.
Vaccine passport.

Or is socialism or communism, freedom to that person? Part of the implicit bias, is what freedom is. Part of the implicit bias, is how you define your rights. You know, everyone should have to have, I am definitely a vaccine supporter but do I think everyone should have to have a vaccine? Not necessarily.


Do I think everyone needs to be properly educated? Yes I do.


So that they can make their own decision.

Mm-hmm, yeah.

Definitely, right? I think that people need to know, the longer that we don’t have vaccines, the more variants. The more people that aren’t vaccinated, the more variants we are likely to have. The longer we are to be in this. I think people need to know that, right? But this will be around forever now. Like COVID will never go away-


just like the common cold or the flu. It will never, ever, ever, ever go away.

Yeah, right and that’s the other part is, You have to be mindful that because of our implicit and explicit biases is that we may not have the absolute on the information-

That’s right.

So you have to do with what you do have access to, right? And that’s not because you’re not doing anything, that’s because you, like we said earlier. We heard from Christopher saying earlier, is having those engaging conversation.


If you truly want to understand, go in from a place of curiosity and not well Cal prove to me-

That’s it.

that there’s a cure. Prove to me that. I cannot prove that to you.

Yeah, that’s it.

But I’ve made a decision-

Yeah, have a-

with information about it.

Have a conversation with- Exactly, have a conversation with someone who has different political views but go from a listening perspective and a curious perspective without trying to make a point. Without trying to get your point across. Let me tell you where I did this, great story. It was with my stepdad.


My stepdad has a Christian background. That’s his history. I believe that he still believes in biblical things but he has-


a more modern interpretation at this stage. He and I were talking about it just a few weeks ago. About, when I came out of the closet.


And he said, he said Christopher. He said, the Bible is right and your lifestyle is wrong. And this is why I do believe it’s a choice. And so what I did-


and I was man, super anxious, like i shook through-

the whole thing.


Because he’s, you know he’s a big guy. He’s intimidating, he likes to get loud. He’s a bulldozer in conversations. He’s a former-


Calgary police officer, so he kind of holds that mentality.


You know, like just if we’re talking about a stereotype, he was a police officer. I believe in the ’70s and ’80s in Calgary and so I was extremely intimidated and afraid of this conversation but I stayed curious and I just kept asking, and asking, and asking questions. What it boiled down to is, I finally said to him, tell me about the first time that you knew a girl was like a girl.

Yeah, yeah.

And he told me his story. And I said, you know the interesting thing about that is that my story’s exactly the same.

Mm, wow.

Except it was a boy and it was in the circumstance. And that’s when I knew-


a boy was a boy.

And who can deny that experience.

And. I said, so I’m really confused about your messaging.


And literally, he grabbed his cup and his hands were shaking, took a sip, sat back, crossed his legs and his hands got really big. And he says, well, you’ve just shattered my understanding. Of this.


Ooh, it gets me emotional.

Yeah, I can see.

And in that moment, he and I developed the most fervent respect for each other. Even though we don’t see eye to eye on so many things.

Of course, yes.

He and I can go and have those conversations without destroying each other. We don’t have to agree and we don’t even agree to disagree. What we agree to, is understanding.


And we have a great relationship.

I love that. I really, I really love that story and I wanna add a little bit to that before we kind of wrap up here. I wanted to add a little bit to that. And this week, we’re not really going to give you any top three things or anything like that. I really just wanna let this podcast sit with you and the only thing I would ask is for you to reflect on some of this. And you may have to listen to it again and just slow it down and stop it, pause.

Specifically, the inspired action


is to be imperfect in recognizing that your implicit bias is imperfect-


and to check it, just check it.

Yeah, just kind of being aware of it. So here’s a story I’m gonna share with you, just happened to me last night. So I’m on my way home and of course, you know, we’re always excited going home cause now we’re like, the day’s done. We’re transitioning to getting into the home side. Things are gonna be a little bit easier, right, when you’re at home? Cause you’re thinking about dinner. You’re thinking about either working out, you’re thinking about you’re gonna read, you’re gonna watch Netflix, whatever right? So I’m about, I pulled into the garage and then I see the phone on my car display comes up and says, this Ottawa number is calling me and it wasn’t 888 or 800 anything. And I think to myself, you know, because right now we get so skeptical answering the phone because there’s all these autodialers and all these things. I just wanna verify your number, see who answers, or whatever, some BS is gonna happen but for some reason I picked the call. I took the call, pulled into the drive in, didn’t get out, didn’t even turn off the car and the person said, you know, hi, I’m such and such. I’m here to support and it was for a liberal party. Right, cause you know we’re going through an election. Elections coming up and it’s for a liberal party and I said to myself, I just want to understand something. I said, are you in Ottawa right now? Right, cause I’m in Calgary, Ottawa. You know, that whole rivalry that happens between the West and the East, and whatever, specifically Ontario? And so he goes, well no, it’s an Ottawan number, yes but I’m not actually in Ottawa right now. I actually came out to Calgary to support the liberal member that is, you know, is running right now in the city. And I said, so let me understand this. So you’re from Ottawa using a Ottawa number, calling someone in Calgary with a 403 number. You know, out here in the West, knowing what you know already about how we feel, usually, generally, people feel about Ontario and you’re gonna ask me, to support a liberal member? And he goes, still had his high chipper, really energized voice, didn’t even, you know, he didn’t even dip a little bit. He goes, yes sir, that’s exactly what I’m doing and I said, thank you for doing that. And I said after all, like you really. He goes, I think I’m a sucker for punishment and I said, thank you for doing that. And I said, you know what I want you to know, thank you for doing that work, right? So regardless of what that looks like, whoever that party is, you’re still gonna make that call you. You’re still gonna see how you can drum that support. And I told him, I said I’ll support it, for sure, right? And so from my perspective-

It’s just kindness.

And he-

And you could do the same with the conservative party because it’s kindness.


You could say, you know this isn’t, I’m not going to vote for you, but man, I have so much respect for what you do.

Absolutely, I think if I was in Ontario, knowing what I know, I’d probably do the exact same thing because I know I expect the call out here, right? And he said to me, you know what sir? And I said, okay, you can call me Kyle. Right, –

He goes, this is probably one of the nicest conversations I’ve had and so just thank you, for that. And I’m glad he said that cause he’s recognized it. Cause I know it’s not an easy gig, right? It’s almost like people in sales, it’s not an easy gig when you’re out there knocking on doors and cold calling. It’s not an easy gig. And you know, I think we did a podcast on rejection and then if we didn’t, we were gonna do one, right? Because it’s not an easy thing. And the fact that he did all that and still, right? That takes something, that takes someone who’s mindful that, hey, I may get some rubs based on what you just said about checking the bias. He may have an implicit bias of, I know people are not gonna be so overwhelming. I know people are gonna, you know, hung up the phone on me. I know people are gonna probably say one or two flavored things. He didn’t mention any of those things to me but he just said, this is one of the nicest conversations and he’s like, I wish you a great evening. And I said, thank you, right? So I think it’s possible. What we’ve been talking about is about being mindful and checking that in. You could still, like Christopher just said, you could still have a conversation with someone who says, I appreciate the call. Not my party but I appreciate the call or I don’t like the platform. I don’t, whatever that is for you and you can still be a kind person. So we hope, we’ll leave you with that today. We want to let you know, we are really all about community. One thing that we’ve just launched is our Facebook group on the same title of our podcast. So “Inspired Action for Imperfect Humans.” This is not just about us. We wanna build a community where we can have these conversations. Where people could also help other people. Where people can have a place that they can go and have a conversation without feeling that they’re judged and all this other stuff. So if you’re on Facebook and you’re interested in this group, please search for it. Request to be joined to the group. We will see you in that community. Until next week, take care.

[Narrator] It’s our goal to build a global community of inspired action takers and we can only do that with your help. So if you love ‘Inspired Action,” please leave a review on your favorite podcasting app and share us on your socials. You’ve heard from us. Now we wanna hear from you. Go to and tell us, what is the inspired action you took this week? Next week on “Inspired Action for Imperfect Humans.”

Tara looked. Tara looked at him and said, John, I’m not your slave and I’m not your lackey. I did my job and maybe you needed to be here on time so that you could help troubleshoot some of these issues and if you have a problem with it, why don’t you deal with IT? I am done working for you in this moment. I’m going to leave the room. Good luck.

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