“Woah! Are You Trustworthy?” Pt. 2 Brief Summary of Show:
Trust. What is it? Why do we give our trust, why do we lose it? What do we need to feel trusted? What do we need to put our trust in someone? In the continuation of this 2-part Inspired Action episode hosts Kyle and Christopher discuss trust in business, between employees, in leaders, in our teams, in our personal relationships and answer these questions.
Calls to Action:
Tell us your “inspired stories” stories by visiting www.InspiredActionPodcast.ca
Christopher Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/career-life-coach-christopher-lawrence/
Kyle Kalloo LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-kalloo/
Change My Life Coaching & Strategic Leader LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/6446498/admin/
Change My Life Coaching: https://changemylifecoaching.ca
Strategic Leader: https://strategicleader.ca
7 Reasons Being Vulnerable Makes Better Leaders: https://www.business2community.com/leadership/7-reasons-vulnerable-makes-better-leaders-01971295
“Woah! Are You Trustworthy?” Pt. 2 Transcript:
Hey, like, I’m not a perfect human being. What we’re not going for is perfection. What we’re going for is a new relationship with it.
[Announcer] Is the thought of being imperfect, keeping you from taking action. Welcome to Inspired Action for Imperfect Humans. Each week, we give you real life stories and thought-provoking research that inspires your soul to live a more fulfilled life through your own actions. From the heart of Calgary Canada. Here are your hosts award winning coaches, Christopher Lawrence and Kyle Kalloo.
Oh. Oh my gosh. Kyle and I had such a great chat last time. Hopefully you agree with the, are you trustworthy? And so this is part two of that. So Kyle wow.
Yeah, that it was crazy. Like we literally had to cut it off cause it was just going and going and going. And then even after that it was going and we’re just like, so we know we left you a little bit in a for lurch and it’s not, it was not to be a cliffhanger. It was not.
To be that way.
It was because Kyle says I talk so much, but he, he kept trying to cram more crap in.
Cause I could see your brain. Cause we were like, oh, but then there’s this. Oh, but then there’s this.
What do you mean you can see my brain. I can see your brain. You were like, I just need to leave you with these three things that I’m like, no.
We do that all the time. And this is probably why your sessions are never finished on time.
Your sessions are never finished on time because…
I have never ended on time in nine years of coaching.
And its like…
Sorry. Even another client that we have. And I had a session with him yesterday and we share him cause you’re working with him on some of the things as well, which sometimes that happens. And he said, yeah, that 45 minute session I had with him. And he was with his partner that turned into a two hour and I was like, what? And he goes, but to be honest though, we needed that. I’m glad he did it. Right. And I’m not telling people to book 45 minutes with you and get two hours. But I think, you know, I think you do that really well. Right? I think clients really trust you in that process that they just go on and you see an opportunity to just keep helping and supporting them in that. And so I think that’s great. So I would definitely say, you know, on a lot of things, you are very trustworthy.
Do you know why?
You create that space for that to happen.
Do you know why I can create space for this? And this is my problem with a little bit of the push to regulation of coaching and the regulation in psychology. We are not psychologists. We are coaches and there’s a push for regulation in our industry. And I think that without regulation you have challenges and opportunity, with regulation you have challenges and opportunities.
Of course. Yeah.
One of the challenges that I struggle with is that the international coach federation ICF, their coaching model. This is why I don’t trust them. It is so narrow. Like I do things that would not fit in regulation at all because I do share personal stories, but do you know why I do it, Kyle? I create an equalization in the room so that they see that I’m a human being. I’m not a superpower. This is why my clients stay longer and they get better results than other life coaches.
Yeah. Cause you have that coaching presence.
But I share those personal stories because it’s like, Hey, like I’m not a perfect human being. What we’re not going for is perfection. What we’re going for is a new relationship with it. Right. So it’s like, it’s easy for me to go to those places. And I think I do establish trust and rapport very quickly with people,
You know this, right? Like standing in line at a grocery store or paying my bill at a restaurant. It’s like these people tell me their life stories in like three and a half minutes. It’s like, oh you’re from Saskatchewan. And you’re, you know, I’m paying my bill. It’s like, oh, you’re from Saskatchewan. And you’re, you know, you took agriculture, you know, as your major and you and your boyfriend, aren’t getting along and you’re not sure what you really want to do for your career. You know? And it’s like, and then I come sit down after I’ve paid the bill and left a big tip because we connected. And Kyle’s like okay, let’s go. And I’m like, oh, you’re not going to believe it. Her name is Jennifer. You know, this is her DNA code. And Kyle’s like…
I know he sounds like he’s joking, but it’s definitely true.
It is so true.
And sometimes it frustrates myself and your partner
Because we’re just like, where is he? And of course, and how we… let me just explain this part because how we use this term affectionately with him is when he’s gone for a long period of time or something else that’s happening or he’s supposed to call us back or he’s supposed to do something and he’s on a commute or something has happened. And we just know if he misses the time something’s gonna happen. And I remember the first time we asked you about it and you’re like, all I said was, how do you do? So we kept saying that, did you just say, how do you do? And they just split everything.
I love a how do you do?
And so were like you love a how do you do.
The thing is my mum is the same. And so she’s doubled vaccinated. She came for a visit a few weeks ago and it was nice to see her have a hug. It had been way too long, way too long.
Right. Of course.
And so we are out in public and somebody asks me about my car and my mother stole my, how do you do? She’s like, oh, it’s this and this
I see it.
It’s this and this and it’s got this. And I’m like, mum, this is my, how do you do. She stole it from me. And so for the rest of the weekend, we were like competing.
I could see that.
For who could out, how do you do? But I do establish trust very quickly. The way that Kyle and Ben say it is like, girl, did you just say hello? And they told you their life story.
That’s it exactly.
It’s like, yes.
How do you do?
But this is something I pride myself on it. And I think until actually until you mentioned it now, I had never seen it in this way. Is that I do establish trust very, very quickly with people. And the way that I do it actually is that I go straight for vulnerability, but my own. Right. It’s like, oh yeah, like, blah, blah, blah. It’s like, oh, that’s great. And then I just ask questions. I just get curious about people. And so…
And so, With that said, though, that didn’t go back to, I know you said in the previous podcast that for you, it’s about earning trust. And sometimes that’s a longer period of time. However, in that moment…
But I always lead it.
Right in that moment, I think those people, there was no you have to earn my trust. Right. In the sense of they’re looking for you to hit off these things.
And my expectation.
That’s what I was talking about was to people that feel earning as a checklist.
My expectation is not that they will trust me. I go in because I’m genuinely…
…curious about people, like I care about people.
That is vulnerability based trust.
Well it is right? In my bio, I don’t know if it still says it. I don’t think it does. But it says Christopher or it used to say, Christopher truly cares about each and every single person he comes into contact with. And it’s so funny because I get frustrated with my mom taking on all these misfits in her life and whatever else. And it’s so funny because as I was, cause I’m like, how come my mom always ends up with these people that, you know, eventually, you know, they take advantage of her friendship. And I was so frustrated and I was telling our mutual friend, Sarah, about it. And Sarah, she started to laugh. She’s like okay, I’m sorry I’m going to call bullshit. And I’m like, why?
Thank you. Thank you.
She says, this coming from the guy who can literally find five or six stray dogs in a year and has to stop and pick them all up. And will walk around the neighborhood looking for them. This is coming from the guy who it’s like sees a stranger having a hard day. But there was one time she called me out. There was one time, there was a girl. I could see a girl crying in the car behind me.
Oh yeah I remember that.
And this was like at the beginning of COVID. Right. And I forgot to put my mask on and everything. I could see her crying. We hit a red light and I’m like, I don’t know what’s happening for her, but I have to say something. So I jumped totally unsafe. I jumped out of my car and I knocked on her window and she rolls down her window. And I said, Hey, I don’t know what’s happening for you, but I want you to know it’s all gonna be okay, whatever you’re going through, it’s temporary. It’s all gonna sort out. And she started crying. She’s like, thank you so much.
And we had a hug through her car window. I got back in my car before the light turned green and I drove away and I’m like, I hope it made a difference.
Of course it did.
It seems too right, in that moment. But I think it’s funny because I do establish trust quickly. I have a story to share though.
Okay. I thought that was the story. Was that not just a story?
Well it was but I had a boss when I was working in oil and gas and she was a great woman. She could see talents in people that they didn’t see in themselves. And she would challenge people. I think sometimes she saw more than what was actually there,
But she truly believed in people’s capabilities. And she might get upset or disappointed at people, but she was never mad at them, but it was interesting because she did break trust with me. So I’m the kind of person that I need to ask questions. I’m curious. So we’re sitting in the room, she was at director level. I was her business analyst and we were in the room with the VP. And he said something and I asked a question for clarity, right? And he knew that I was a new employee, but the way she responded, it was like I embarrassed her or whatever. And she cut me off instantly and redirected the conversation. And to this day, I still don’t know why she did it. But in that moment, the story I told myself was like, oh, it’s not safe to ask questions here. And I learned that multiple times. So I ended up in a position in that company where I actually stopped asking questions. Can you imagine me?
I stopped asking questions and it started there, but there were other incidents that were very similar. It’s like, and what I learned about that company in that industry is like, just don’t make yourself look stupid. Cause there are stupid questions is kind of how the culture was. Great company for so many reasons and actually very good people in it. I would say it was a very mature company in terms of like, you know, exposure. Like they were really good about giving people opportunity and allowing people to explore opportunity, great benefits, like great, great company overall from that perspective. But it was interesting. There was this thing of like, you have to show that you’re the star, you know, that typical, like don’t show vulnerability. And I don’t know if you remember, but that’s the company that I, while I worked there I took antidepressants from probably about, I don’t know, eight months in until the year that I left. And it was like three months after I left that I still had. That was also the company that I put on 80 pounds. That’s suppression. Right.
So much can be impacted. I think that’s what people don’t realize. That so much. And back to what we’d said previously, we say it again and you’ll hear it again and again. This whole thing of checking at the door, right? Can’t work because you are going to, even if you left, it’s the same thing as can happen in your personal life. Right? Some things are gonna happen there. Right. Just doesn’t make sense. Right?
Totally. Well, Kyle, I was thinking that I know you’ve got three things you want to share with the people. However, I came across a piece of research about creating trust through vulnerability and why it’s seven reasons why being vulnerable makes better leaders. So I think vulnerability, we should talk about what vulnerability is in the workplace in a podcast. But here’s some things that vulnerability does in the workplace. Especially if it’s led by leaders. This is for leaders, right? Although this is good for team members too, not just leaders, because I think team members aren’t leading this way either. Like remember your leader is a human being and you have to make them feel safe. Just like it’s their job to make you feel safe.
So vulnerability decreases tension and stress at work, right? Because now we can feel safe. Right? I didn’t feel safe in that job. That’s a perfect example. I was so stressed and tense and I saw it happen over and over with people who couldn’t get there. I saw people walk in white lips, super anxious, not breathing because they didn’t have vulnerability. Ladies and gentlemen, I’m just gonna call my business partner out right now. I can hear your mouse clicking Kyle. You need to.
Yeah. I’m actually just clicking on the stuff that you’re having here. So, which is good. I’m reading along with you.
Anybody not believe him.
You trust me?
I don’t trust you. The second thing is vulnerability increases the flow of ideas, creativity, and innovation. So when we, when leaders can create that freedom, it is a sign of vulnerability because we’re letting go of control. So it does increase this. It helps with better communication flow because we can have more honest conversations. Problems get identified earlier so they’re not hidden. This goes back to what we were saying in the last podcast of like people hiding their mistakes, not feeling like it’s safe. It creates better teamwork and cooperation. That’s a given. It does create a fun workplace and that’s true I think we do that well here.
You know, it’s like we do show vulnerabilities. We make fun of ourselves all of the time. You and I, as leaders in this organization make fun of each other, but appropriately. You know, it’s not cruel or unintended.
And it also create some emotional connections which leads to less turnover. So I mean, that’s a really big thing.
Yeah. And we hear time and time again, if you do all those things and you’re mindful of all those things, you know, people trust others more right. When they know that they’re going to do those things. Right. And the three things I would say on top of that, if you want to be trustworthy. So it has to start with you. How do you show up? Right. I know a lot of times we expect things from people, right. But you need to do these three things. And if you’re a leader, these are things you need to practice. And if people on your team are not doing these things, this is what you need to tell them to do. Right. Because it’s important.
Well you tell them to do it by leading by example.
Absolutely. Right. Or if someone says to you, Hey, how do I make you trust me? Like, I feel I have to earn your trust. I feel like, okay, here’s what you need to do. I need to see these three things displayed when appropriate. Right. So if it’s not there, it’s not there. I’m not saying go around and just recreate it. But when it’s, when there’s an opportunity for it, absolutely. Right. Number one, admit your mistakes. Right. If there is an issue that something has happened, number one, admit your mistakes. Say, listen. Yeah, I actually messed that up. Right. Number two is to be able to ask for help. Right.
I think that’s bigger then people, like it’s so sad. And I think people don’t even know how to identify what help they need, but it’s like if you are struggling for an extended period of time, and it’s not like a personal growth thing where it’s like, yeah, I just need, this is for me to struggle. Like learning to play the guitar or something. Right. It’s like, yeah, that’s your personal struggle. But even with that as like, are you struggling on your own? Are you going to go find an expert to walk you through it? Step-by-step like, I think people do such a crappy job at identifying what they need and asking for support. And I hear it from every client. I’m not very good at asking for help. Ha, ha, ha, ha. Like it’s a, you know, it’s a badge of honor and it’s normalized.
And here’s what I would say, that in my mind is your ultimate weakness. The only obstacle standing in front of you is the one you see in the mirror every morning.
It’s yourself and it’s your own mind. And I think we need to get over asking for help in every single way. We are meant to be community minded. We are built for small communities, not big cities. You need, everybody, needs to ask for more support.
Absolutely. And back to what we said on the previous podcast about the human connection. We are built just like you just said right now as well, we are built for the human interaction, right? We are built for the human interaction. And so people want to help. If you say to someone, Hey, can you do me a favor? There like, I don’t know, but the moment you say, Hey, can you help me? They’re like, oh, what’s going on? Even if they know they may not be able to help. So number two, definitely ask for help. And the final one is number three, apologize. Now for a lot of people, that’s a whole nother can of worm.
I know Christopher’s gonna tell you it’s me. He got to it. He’s gonna tell you it’s me. And I know for some people it’s not even about apology. At least for me, it wasn’t about the apology. It was about moving on so quickly.
That’s it Kyle’s like got it. It was a mistake. Let’s move on to solution. The missed opportunity is allowing the other person to get there with you to that place of moving on.
And so the more sincere and the faster that apologies come.
Oh, unless you’re Christopher, if it’s too fast or too slow, or it’s too high it’s too low. So you have to figure that out. But what I want you to hear… Hold that thought, we only have a minute. You can’t retort okay.
I have childhood trauma.
Like I said, the third one is really to apologize. Right? Because then people will trust you more if you apologize, because they’re like okay, he gets it, I’m ready to move on. So I’m thinking until next time, what is the imperfect inspired action you will take when we talk about trust? Are you trustworthy? Are you trust a person that people can trust? Let us know, looking forward to see you next time.
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Habitually, it’s how we’ve done certain things. Right?
Well it is. But I think the point is that you don’t hire people. You don’t want to hire people who just think like you.
Oh my God.
You want to hire people that stretch and grow you.